Group Number 5

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  Can you explain more about the relationship of the Father to the Son? Are they the same Person revealed in two different ways?

  I say, that if we stray in our Christian walk and do not ask forgiveness, that the unclean spirit that WAS in us can come back 7 times stronger.

  Ok we just learned in western civilization that the AD 1 was the year Christ was born, but some one else said that he was 4 or 5 when they started the date. Can you answer me please?!?

  What about a wife calling her husband "lord"? I heard someone say they should do this.

  If God chooses us and our NOT choosing Him takes priority over His choice of us -- then, catch this, we have something to boast about.

See Questions Page #6

Can Can you explain more about the relationship of the Father to the Son? Are they the same Person revealed in two different ways?

It is not "they" that say God sent the Son, but God Himself. "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world" (1 John 4:14). "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17). The Gospel is called "the Gospel of His Son" (Rom 1:9). The death by which we are saved is "the death of His Son" (Rom 5:10). Believers are, according to the purposde of God, being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29). God has "called us into the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Cor 1:9). God has "sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying Abba Father" (Gal 4:6). The commandment to us is that we "believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ" (1 John 3:23). The Gospel is called "the testimony God has given of His Son" (1 John 5:9-10). As you know, the revelation the Father gave Peter was that Jesus "is the Christ, the Son of the Living God" (Matt 16:16-18). This is the confession that qualified the eunuch to be baptized--that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:37). This is also the truth Satan attacked when Jesus was tempted at the threshold of His ministry (Matt 4:3-6).

These texts could be multiplied many times, but I am sure you are familiar with them. My point in sharing them is to confirm the sanctity of the term "the Son of God." He is the "only begotten Son of God" (John 3:16), or the "only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14). We never need to fear using language the Holy Spirit authored, or saying things the way the Scriptures say them.

Perhaps some of the confusion has come by the false representation of this by the Jehovah's Witnesses. They say the "Son" is the first personality the Father created, and that He is not equal to God. This is not, however, the case. The "Son" was "the Word" in the beginning, Who was "with God and was God" (John 1:14). He is a different personality, but is still God. The Father Himself said of Him, "But to the Son He says: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever . . . " (Heb 1:8). Like God, the Son is eternal, having no beginning nor ending of days (Heb 7:3) -- in direct contradiction of the Jehovah's Witness heresy.

When Jesus said, "I and the Father are One," He did not mean there are the same Person. When He prayed to the Father in Gethsemane, He mentioned this oneness. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me" (John 17:22-23). Theologically, we would say they are "one in essence," with no variance between them. Both are eternal, omnipotent, and omniscient. In a lower sense, husband and wife become "one flesh" (Gen 2:24), and those in Christ Jesus become "one" (Gal 3:28). That is only a faint reflection of the oneness that exists between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Candidly, their oneness goes beyond our capacity to understand--but not beyond our ability to believe.

In the case of the Lord Jesus, there came a point in time when He "humbled Himself," divesting Himself of Divine preogatives, and becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross (Phil 2:5-8). The Father, however, did not Himself stoop to become like those He was going to save, and die for them. He "sent the Son" to accomplish this. Hebrews 10:5-10 declare the Son volunteered for this assignment, accentuating His great love for us and the will of God. The Son did not cease to be God, but He did become a man, for we needed a man to save us.

Knowing people would wrestle with this matter, the Spirit affirms, "For it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) all the fullness should dwell" (Col 1:19). That "fulness" brought God within the range of human perception. Later the Spirit declares, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col 2:9). This is most remarkable from a human point of view, yet was absolutely essential to our salvation. In fact, it was becoming of God to do it this way (Heb 2:10).

This truth is further accentuated by the conferment of blessing upon the people of God by both the Father and Jesus Christ--AFTER the Son returned to heaven. "Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 1:7; 1 Cor 1:3; 2 Cor 1:2; Gal 1:3; Eph 1:2; 6:23; Phil 1:2; Col 1:2; 1 Thess 1:1; 2 Thess 1:2; 1 Tim 1:2; 2 Tim 1:2; Tit 2:14; Philemon 3).

A most precise statement of the case is made by John in 2 John 3: "Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love."

The agonizing prayer of Jesus in Gethsemane was certainly not a prayer to Himself, as some affirm. "And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, saying, Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done" (Lk 22:41-42). The extended prayer of John 17 is filled with repeated references to the Father by the Son. "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You . . . O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was . . . Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are . . . You, Father, are in Me, and I in You . . . Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world . . . O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me" (John 17:1,5,11,21,24,25).

During His ministry, the Lord Jesus declared His dependency upon the Father. This by no means meant He was not Divine -- it did mean He had humbled Himself to become like us in order that He might die for us, and become a faithful and effective Intercessor. We must not recoil from His expressions. "I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things" (John 8:28).

Also, those who confess Jesus before men will be blessed by the Son confessing them to the Father. "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven" (Matt 10:32-33). Everything Jesus had (in the capacity of a Man) was given to Him by the Father. Jesus further said only He knew Who the Father was, and only the Father knew wo the Son was. "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matt 11:27). In fact, Jesus said no one could come to Him unless the Father drew him (John 6:65). Jesus, in turn, brings us to God (1 Pet 3:18).

In the end, when the saints shall be glorified, and forever with the Lord, it is written, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God" (Rev 21:3). The Son will also be with us, as it is written, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" (Rev 7:10) . . . "These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb" (Rev 14:4) . . . "But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple" (Rev 21:22).

I say, that if we stray in our Christian walk and do not ask forgiveness, that the unclean spirit that WAS in us can come back 7 times stronger.

You are correct! The Lord Jesus dwells in our hearts "by faith" (Col 3:16-17), which can be "denied" (1 Tim 5:8), departed from (1 Tim 4:1), and made shipwreck of (1 Tim 1:19). This is when love for Christ waxes cold (Matt 24:12), and people leave their first love (Rev 2:4). We are told a falling away would occur on a large scale before the end (2 Thess 2:3). Peter spoke of such a condition as worse than never coming to Christ in the first place (2 Pet 2:20-21).

The domination of Satan is inevitable if we are not dominated by Jesus. We either serve sin or righteousness--there is no neutral position. The Spirit warns the church that Satan works in the children of disobedience (Eph 2:1-2). If we do not resist him by being steadfast in the faith, he will overcome us--and there are no exceptions (1 Pet 5:8-9). If we become basically disobedient, Satan will work in us, and there are no exceptions.

There is no question that God and Satan [or any of his hosts] cannot occupy a person simultaneously. There can be no concord between Christ and Belial (a name for Satan), or light and darkness. The indwelling of Deity is conditioned upon us coming apart from defilement (2 Cor 6:15-18). Those who live by faith cannot be indwelt by demons. Their faith is a shield against such possession. Demons will, however, attempt to seduce us from the outside, drawing us away from Christ. Sadly, we are apprised, they are successful with many in drawing them away from the Savior back into the realm of darkness (1 Tim 4:1-3).

The real question is not whether "a Christian cannot be demon possessed." In God's Word, such an approach is never taken to the subject. That is thinking of a "Christian" as someone that at some time made a decision to come to and receive Christ. But that is not Spirit's way of looking at it. The real "Christian" is the one that is "walking in the light" (1 John 1:7), "living by faith" (2 Cor 5:7; Heb 10:38-39), and "looking uto Jesus" (Heb 12:1-2). God has "called us into the fellowship of His Son" (1 Cor 1:9).

Make no mistake about this, if Christ is not dwelling in us, there is no protection against being possessed by Satan and his hosts of darkness. Now the question becomes whether or not Jesus will remain where He is not wanted. If He will continue inhabit and protect those who do not hear His voice. Will we benefit from Him if we do not fellowship with Him? Can a person--any person--be kept from the wicked one without active involvement with Christ Jesus? To ask the questions is to answer them. No such people, their profession notwithstanding, are promised protection from the devil and his demons. If a professed believer could be saved while living in sin, then God has become a respector of persons--which He emphatically denies (Acts 10:34). That would mean He would save and protect people who, by their return to sin, had become "worse" than they were before, while condemning others who lived the same way, because they had not made a past decision in favor of Christ. Such a view is an insult to the grace of God, and causes applause in hell.

we just learned in western civilization that the AD 1 was the year Christ was born, but some one else said that he was 4 or 5 when they started the date. Can you answer me please?!?

The comments to which you refer were prompted by the knowledge of different calendars (Jewish, Gregorian, Julian, etc). The New Testament makes no reference to a specific calendar. Precise calendar-dating is not the point of Scripture, but the significance of the events that occurred.

We use the Julian calendar system, which was in place in New Testament times. This calendar was instituted by Julius Ceasar in 46 B.C., not A.D. 4-5.

The New Testament refers to rulers and events rather than dates. For instance, the ministry of John the Baptist is said to have started in "the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar" (Luke 3:1). According to the Julian Calendar, this was A.D. 28-29. Within six months, Jesus was baptized by John at the age of 30 (Luke 3:21-23). That would make the A.D. 1 date generally correct, according to the Julian Calendar.

The real problem with dating is not the determination of the birth of Christ, but of the total number of years the world has been here. Take the year 2,000, for an example. Roughly speaking, this would be the 6,000th year of history. However, because of the change of calendars, some believe there is a possible difference of 3-7 years. I believe that is observation is what caused the remark about Jesus possibly being born in A.D. 4-5. The person making that statement did not do their homework. Jesus was born about A.D. 1, according to the Julian calendar.

Having said all of this, it is interesting, but has no real bearing on knowing the truth of God.

What about a wife calling her husband "lord"? I heard someone say they should do this.

Before you jump to conclusions, the above reference is taken from the Word of God. It is found in First Peter 3:6 (O.T. reference, Genesis 18:12). "Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear." The text does NOT say, however, that the wife SHOULD use this terminology. That was a purely human explanation of the text.

You will notice in this text that the word "lord" is not capitalized, as when speaking our the Lord God or the Lord Jesus Christ. The word used is the same as used for God, but the meaning is not the same. Our allegiance to the Lord is total. Allegiance to a husband only pertains to this life, and is void if it requires us to contradict or compete with our commitment to the Living God.

Peter's use of this word denotes the respect and recognition of the husband. it is NOT meant to connote worship or a commitment that neutralizes the wifes devotion to the Lord.

This word ("lord") is used in a variety of places in Scripture for those placed over others. With the exception of references to God and Christ, English versions alway distinguish the word by using a small "l" (versus "Lord" or "LORD").

  • Master of a servant or slave (Matt 24:50).
  • A subject of a king or ruler (Acts 25:26)
  • A child that inherits his father's wealth (Gal 4:1)

It really makes little difference what opinion we mortals entertain about the the use of this word. The Holy Spirit uses it relating to associations between mortals. But it is never used in the sense of total allegiance or worship in such associations. Nor, indeed, are men ever required to ask or expect their wives to call them "lord." No position should be adopted, however, that would constrain people to criticize Sarah for callign Abraham "lord," when the Holy Spirit commended her.

If God chooses us and our NOT choosing Him takes priority over His choice of us -- then, catch this, we have something to boast about.

Your argument is too philosophical--saturated with man's wisdom. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, affirming many times He would have gathered them together, yet they would not--and He did not. He even said their house was left desolate because they did not recognize the day of their visitation. He said the things they rejected "belonged" to them. (Matt 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44). Why didn't He gather them anyway? He said He wanted to? Scripture affirmed Jesus came to His own "and His own received Him not." It further affirms that those who "received Him" were given power to become the sons of God (John 1:12-13). These are, indeed. strange words if choice is not involved ikn Divine acceptance. How do God's words fit into your philosophy? There is an obvious clash between these Divine statements and your philosophical ones.

See Questions Page #6

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